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ť Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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ť Topic: PT-156 & 20 mm Turret Gun(s)?
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=3041

Ahoy there.

I'm trying to figure out if PT-156 (or any other Elco 80' boat) carried a 20 mm gun in both the forward and rear turrets?

I have a few extra 20 mm guns and magazines from Lindberg and thought that a 20 mm gun in each turret would be a bit different.

While I'm at it.

Where were extra magazines kept for the 20 mm gun in the forward turret on PT-156?

Was the range of the PT boats .50 cal greater than the range of the 20 mm? I remember reading in an aircraft book that it was.

Thanksand cheers from Peter

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Feb 6, 2013 - 7:03am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Yes they did. Several Ron 9 boats replaced the forward 50 cal machine gun with a 20mm canon. If you do not have a copy of Bridge Carney's book "First-Up' grab one. It is an outstanding work about the history of Ron 9 and PT 157 during the Kennedy rescue. It has several photos that will be of great help with your project.

Posted By: Roy Forbes | Posted on: Feb 6, 2013 - 9:42am
Total Posts: 371 | Joined: Sep 5, 2012 - 4:57pm

I believe at one point PT-195 carried 20mm's in both turrets, as well as the quad-50 mount forward.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Feb 6, 2013 - 2:12pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

There's a drawing on Dick's DVD "20mm Ammo Stowage Locker Stbd Side Chart Room Trunk" that doesn't have a legible list of boats that it applies to, but it's referenced on the 50 cal. ammo locker drawing with the note "for alterations to locker on boats PT 187 to 196 see drawing ref. #1" which is the 20mm drawing.

Note the angled stbd windshield next to the forward turret with the 20mm mounted in this thread:
[url]http://www.ptboats.org/cgi-local/sitenetbbs/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=557&sc=20&pg=1&x=0[/url]

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Feb 6, 2013 - 4:55pm
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Former PT-155 crewmember Bob Haskett mentioned that while on Patrol the Mk-12 20mm Drums were located on the three foot charthouse extension behind the forward turret as seen in this PT-157 Photo, Aft Of Kelly's elbow. A clearer Photo can also be seen on Page 19 in Bridge Carney's, "First Up"

Hope this helps

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Feb 7, 2013 - 7:58am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Ahoy there Rob.

Modelling a given boat can become very expensive very fast if one has to buy a book in order to access to some detail or the other. Not all model builders have either access to these books or the funds to get them with.

Thanks to everyone for all the answers with the photos that show the details I need.

I think I have a handle on how to do this now.

Cheers

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder2 | Posted on: Feb 7, 2013 - 10:17am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Peter;
I believe one boat in RON 9 did have 20mm's in both turrets, "AT ONE TIME", but I have to find the photo. However, PT 195 RON 12(which I am modeling after my RON 40 Diorama) did have 20MM's in both turrets, at least in the photos I have, thanks to Wayne and my SWCC/BOATGUY brother GMMC(SWCC/SW) Jim Gray. As for RON 9 Boats, I also have a photo of PT 155,(1944-1945) with a .50 cal mounted on the barrel of the 40MM!! I have NEVER seen this on another boat!!!!!
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 8, 2013 - 5:54pm
Total Posts: 3071 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Ted - I have one other photo of a .50-cal. mounted atop a 40mm, but set further back on the cannon. Unfortunately, no boat number is visible in the shot.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Feb 8, 2013 - 9:31pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Pat Rogers RM2/c at the helm.
Lt.(jg) Hamlin Smith wondering if the sunburns received in the tropics will cause skin cancer later in life.
Halle Skiles GM2/c in turret.
Arnold Becket TM (partially hidden with radio headphone on),
Al Vachlon BM and Cox (at rear twin 50cal. gun)
(October 1943)

Can any tell from the shadow the caliber of the machine gun forward of the 20mm gun?

natsmith

Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 6:03am
Total Posts: 213 | Joined: Jun 25, 2024 - 3:07pm

I took notice of the mount for the 20mm. It appears that there are several different types of mounts used for the 20mm's in the turrets. Does anyone have more photos?
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 6:54am
Total Posts: 1680 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

With regard to nat Smith's photo, we were the envy of the Battleship Navy in that PT Boat sailors were always running around stripped to the waist and sometimes wearing shorts. That is, at least in SoPac. I paid for it in later life with numerous trips to dermatologists and two skin operations.
Regards, Pat Rogers

Posted By: Pat Rogers | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 7:27am
Total Posts: 72 | Joined: Oct 10, 2006 - 3:21am

Hello Nethaniel,

That shadow on the charthouse in PT-154 Photo looks like a single 50 cal. MG. When was your Photo taken?

Have photos of 156 and 157 showing twin 50's at approximate location in June of 1944.

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 7:34am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Is that a 20mm aft on the 156?

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 8:47am
Total Posts: 287 | Joined: Dec 19, 2010 - 11:45pm

Pat: I too have had numerous skin cancers removed from my face and back. T00 much sun and salt spray.

C. J. Willis

Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 9:08am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

@ Garth: Yes, that is a 20mm aft.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 10:33am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Thank you, Will. And, she doesn't have her 37mm even though there's a mount for one on the foredeck.

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 11:04am
Total Posts: 287 | Joined: Dec 19, 2010 - 11:45pm

Just curious, with the close up shot that Wayne put up. Notice just behind the 37mm Gunner what seems to be two round wheels near ammo box, or am I seeing something.

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 11:10am
Total Posts: 3544 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Could it be a wheel-barrel?

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 11:37am
Total Posts: 287 | Joined: Dec 19, 2010 - 11:45pm

Former PT-156 skipper, Rex Anderson mentioned that the 37mm was in for repairs at the time the photo was taken. 20mm on stern is a Mk-10 mount.

If you really enlarge the first photo of PT-157 those wheel like objects are actually goose neck vents. Thought those were wheels too until this morning.

Wayne

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 11:38am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Wayne,

Those "wheels" are really vents? I would have never guessed that. Thanks.

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 11:49am
Total Posts: 287 | Joined: Dec 19, 2010 - 11:45pm

Notice on second photo it looks like 156 has 20mm's in each turret.

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 1:59pm
Total Posts: 3071 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

This Photo of 156 was taken at the same photo session as the underway shots. Twin 50's flash hiders can be seen behind the guy standing on the Day room.

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 2:30pm
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

For what its worth, those first and second "underway" shots of the 156 had to have been taken at different times...

In the first shot, the top of the charthouse is unobstructed -- the air scoop(s) that show up in the second shot haven't been installed yet, the "wheels," or "air vents," or whatever they are in front of the "ammo box," are present (and aren't in the second shot), the bundles against the starboard bulkhead of the charthouse are different between the shots, and the first shot shows the forward 37mm aircraft gun -- the second shows an empty 37mm cradle.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 8:19pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Pretty sure the first (single boat) shot is the 157.

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Feb 9, 2013 - 9:43pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

PT-157 Finch Haven, New Guinea 6-44.

Will is correct first PT in my twin 50's post was PT-157 and was taken during the same photo session as PT-156.

Wayne Traxel

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Feb 10, 2013 - 6:44am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Does anyone have a picture of the 156 boat with a quad .50 cal Maxon turret mounted on the stern?

SteveS156

Posted By: SteveS156 | Posted on: Feb 10, 2013 - 7:02am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Hi Steve, Been searching for photos the quad 50 Mount installation on PT 156 for years since Rex Anderson mentioned in 1995 that it replaced the stern mounted 20mm. Be willing to bet photo's will show up as soon as I complete a model of 156 based on an educated guess. Yeah right! Always works that way.

Wayne

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Feb 10, 2013 - 7:07am
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

Disregard my post on the 156 "underway" shots "taken at different times..."

I misread Wayne's post about the photos of the 156 and 157...thought he was talking about the 156 in both shots.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Feb 10, 2013 - 1:58pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Wayne ... to answer your question about my photograph (actually this photo is Pat Rogers) ...

The presence of the Mark XIII roll-off torpedoes in the photograph indicate that it was taken between 29 September -13 November 1943. The original is dated 20 September 1943 while the Deck Log of PT-154 states that the roll-off racks were completed on 17 October 1943. The funnel was probably added to help cool the radar unit. No other boat seemed to have this chart house funnel. It is not known whether the radar was installed in August or September 1943.

natsmith

Posted By: Nathaniel Smith | Posted on: Feb 11, 2013 - 4:43am
Total Posts: 213 | Joined: Jun 25, 2024 - 3:07pm

Nathaniel, Thanks for the PT-154 photo info. It was noticed when the first 154 pictures were posted that the turret 20's lower mount on 154 was a different design than lower mounts found on PT's 155,156 & 157. The mounts on 155, 156 & 157 must have protruded enough to warrant the starboard side of the windshield to be angled to enable the mount to clear when being traversed. PT-154's appears a more compact design, allowing it to be traversed and have clearance to the starboard side of the windshield. Thanks again for your photos and info.

Wayne

Posted By: Wayne Traxel | Posted on: Feb 11, 2013 - 2:11pm
Total Posts: 248 | Joined: Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40am

This post has been moved up because of recent posting involving the subject matter.

What photos could be found were uploaded and posted in their original location. Some photo could not be found because servers no longer exist. Other images were uploaded to Photobucket under personal accounts rather than in the PT Forum account, hence the photos are lost.

Dick . . .

A few other pages (posts) were made under the same topics, when I can locate the images for those posts I will be updaying them and bring them forward.

Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Jun 25, 2024 - 1:31pm
Total Posts: 1487 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm