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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic: Early PT Boat Green- (PT-109) Some ideas.........
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Greetings,

I had an opportunity to take some of the color pictures that were posted and run them through a color analyzer at work today. We paint over 30 million lbs of aluminum extrusion a year and mix and tint almost 300 colors.

Our Paint Lab Manager is a master tinter with 25 years in the industry. He has been helping me identify and breakdown everything from the paint of a headlamp guard from an Iraqi T-72 to an interior paint used on the Japanese zero. Both of these these were done from actual pieces.

Needless to say he was challenged trying to match a photo from a PDF file I made from one of the pictures of the depth charges and rear deck of one of the boats. The pictures I am referring to are the first 2 that David Waples posted on my earlier post "Request Permision To Come Aboard" In this picture, it looks like port side boat's paint was fairly new.

We came up with a color very similar to FS 34092 and yes, there is a lot of blue in this color. We then took our file of the Tamiya paints and came up with the following formula.

1 part XF-11 IJN Green
1 part XF-26 Deep Green
1 part XF-50 Field Blue
3/10 part XF-8 Flat Blue
2/10 part XF-19 Sky Gray

The reflectance factor is 58-63 which is somewhere around - Semi - Gloss which is consistent with most of the USN colors for aircraft in WW II. Yes, as the paint is exposed to sunlight and the elements it does get a bit grayer and the gloss factor decreases to a flat color.

To lighten up the color on horizontal surfaces, add more XF-19.

That said, I am trying to match a color from a photograph on a paint that was mixed in the field with whatever they had at hand. There's a lot of variables here, but until someone can get me a 2" x 2" piece of an actual boat from that era to test, all of this is conjecture.

Here's a thought: Japanese aircraft were painted IJN Green, U.S.M.C. equipment was painted a dark green, USN and USMC aircraft were tri-color ( light gray, medium blue and dark blue. At least we know that all of the primary colors were in this area of operations weather they were US paints or captured Japanese paints.

I think the paint fumes are getting to me boys. But I just made my first batch of the stuff and it sure looks good.

Out here.

Mike Witous

Semper Fidelis

Temecula Valley Model Club
Haud Sceptum Haud Sentio Haud Forsit

http://www.meetup.com/TemValModClub/

Posted By: Gunner Mike | Posted on: Nov 21, 2012 - 11:55pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

It might be a bit of overkill here in trying for that perfect match. When you have no color photos to go by, it makes things a bit tough. It is not like trying to paint aircraft of WWII, because there are hundreds of color photos of these planes. We do know that the boats were painted green once in the South pacific. Now with that being said, some models are painted in different shades of green, and unless it is something way out of line, it is pretty tough for anyone to say, your wrong here. The FS color to my knowledge is very close to original. Take into consideration, your weathering of the boat, which will change the shade a bit, but whay Dave has posted here is pretty tough to argue with. I think we have been talking about the color of PT 109 for 10 years now, let's switch the record.

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 6:43am
Total Posts: 3547 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

One last point. Remember that in many instances (especially in those early days in the Solomons) these paint jobs were applied using brushes, mops, and whatever spray eqipment might be at hand. Maybe airbrushing is not always the way to go......

Will

Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 7:55am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Hi Mike,
I'm assuming we're talking about the color on the 109. To add to the confusion let's not forget color shifting of the photographs. I'm often reminded of that by others. What I ended up doing was taking 4 parts White Ensign Models 5-NG (Navy Green) and mixing one part White Ensign Models Tropical Green. From there you can lighten or darken with shades of gray. If all those paints mixed together give you something close to what you're seeing in the photos and you're happy with it, then go for it. Otherwise the FS34102 is very close.

Here's a photo of my 1/72 109 model using the above formula...
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo2-1.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109Photo3-1.jpg[/IMAGE]

David Waples

Great looking model Dave, The 34102 looks great. Fading, color shift and reflectance all are factors.

34092 is very close to 34102 but with a little more blue. Weathering, filters and washes will certainly affect the overall hue . There is also the "scale effect" to consider.

Being that there is no definitive formula, a medium green works. I am looking forward to the builds of this kit by the guys here. I ordered mine from Freetime and hope it will be released before Xmas.

I look forward to your review.

(I will post some pictures of the 579 boat I built as soon as I figure out how to post pictures)

Happy Thanksgiving and thank you for your advise

Mike Witous

Semper Fidelis

Temecula Valley Model Club
Haud Sceptum Haud Sentio Haud Forsit

http://www.meetup.com/TemValModClub/

Posted By: Gunner Mike | Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 11:04am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Mike, here are our web masters videos on posting photos, [url]http://www.youtube.com/rjwgdi/[/url]

SH

Posted By: Hadly | Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 11:58am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Will is correct. When the 31 boat was painted green in the Philippines it was painted with mops.

Posted By: Mark Culp | Posted on: Nov 23, 2012 - 7:44pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Will is correct. When the 31 boat was painted green in the Philippines it was painted with mops.

My Dad, who was on the 34 boat, told me the same thing.

Al Ross

Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Nov 23, 2012 - 7:49pm
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm

Mike, here are our web masters videos on posting photos, [url]http://www.youtube.com/rjwgdi/[/url]

SH

Ok I will give it a try

http://s24.beta.photobucket.com/user/CWO3/media/PT%20BOAT/DSCF0138.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9

Mike Witous

Semper Fidelis

Temecula Valley Model Club
Haud Sceptum Haud Sentio Haud Forsit

http://www.meetup.com/TemValModClub/

Posted By: Gunner Mike | Posted on: Nov 23, 2012 - 11:06pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Mike,
Do you have any 1/35 mops? Kidding of course. I still think that an airbrush is the way to go. I think it will come down to technique and what you're trying to accomplish.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 24, 2012 - 7:04am
Total Posts: 1680 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

David,
Roberto at Royal has 1/35 scale mops which I believe were shown in his beautiful PT diorama. That would be an interesting subject to show the boat being painted by the crew tied up next to a dock or a secluded lagoon somewhere in the Pacific.

Jerry Beasley

Posted By: Jerry Beasley | Posted on: Nov 24, 2012 - 12:43pm
Total Posts: 89 | Joined: Jan 9, 2008 - 4:27pm

What about 1/35 paint??[:-good-:]

Al Ross

Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Nov 24, 2012 - 1:48pm
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm

Good idea Jerry. So Al, are we going to have a discussion scaling effect now. :-)
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Nov 24, 2012 - 4:26pm
Total Posts: 1680 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

So Al, are we going to have a discussion scaling effect now. :-)

Nah.

Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Nov 25, 2012 - 11:35am
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm

Hey guys... most of you probably don't know me, but to throw something new at you, let me start by saying I'm a WWII researcher with a heavy interest in USN camouflage.

In January of 1943 the Navy added the Tropical Green System to the list of possibilities to the Pacific Fleet. This used Zinc Chromate primer mixed with black to get a dark green. The next month, the manufacturer of the green tinting material used to make the greens (Navy Green, Ocean Green, etc.) was ordered in a limited run at Norfolk Navy Yard, which was responsible at the time for most of the paint manufacture for units based or building on the East Coast. I don't know how fast this paint would have been built up in stocks and shipped out to the South Pacific - odds are it was either manufactured at Mare Island Navy Yard or other commercial vendors on the West Coast. I went through the Bureau of Ships camouflage files for PTs about a month and a half ago and there was nothing about when such stocks arrived. There was a short memo from COM MTB RONS SOPACFOR dated May 3, 1943 stating Best color scheme non specular tropical green or mottled tropical green and brown to blend with jungle background primarily mangrove, and a request from the same comment on April 28th, request all PT boats destined south pacific be painted non specular green.

For what it's worth... the view from the top (BuShips)

Tracy White
Researcher@Large

Posted By: Tracy White | Posted on: Dec 1, 2012 - 5:51pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Welcome to the board Tracy and thank you for posting the information on the tropical green system formula. Not that it would be the same but I'll have to experiment with some yellow chromate and black to see what I can come up with. If it works out I'll share the results.
Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 2, 2012 - 6:07am
Total Posts: 1680 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Was at a Great Home Store (hardware store) today getting a new florescent light fixture with two daylight type tubes and I saw a spray can of Krylon Satin Green paint that looks to be a pretty good match for a South Pacific boat. It's close enough for me and the $6.29 price for 340 grams is lot better tan the price for a comparable amount of Testor's spray can paint. The Testor's cans only contain 85 grams of paint and they cost $7.99 at the not so local hobby shop.

Cheers

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Dec 2, 2012 - 8:14am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

As part of my research into “famous” PTs (please see my post in the “PT 109 Deck Log” thread) I was very interested in the 109’s color. The first individuals I was able to contact were PT 109 author Robert J. Donovan, 109 crew member Gerard Zinser, and actor Cliff Robertson. I wanted to talk to Mr. Robertson to get insight into the movie boats’ colors vs. the actual 109. This was back in 2000 before they each passed away. I also contacted several PT boaters who were stationed at Tulagi when PT 109 was there. I got their addresses from Alyce Guthrie after she acted as a go between and obtained permission for me to write them. I’m going to include all the details when I go to print next year. There is far too much to post in the forum but since everyone here is going to get started on their Italeri kits I thought I’d pass on some color research in advance.

Since I grew up during the PT 109 craze of the early 1960‘s Mr. Donovan, Mr. Robertson, and Mr. Zinser were amazing to communicate with. But not surprisingly one of the many other PT boaters I contacted was the one who was able to provide a first hand color reference to the 109. I don’t want to post his name here but will include it and more details when I go to print. Unlike many of the veterans I spoke to and corresponded with this individual was very sharp when I interviewed him in 2001. Talking to him on the phone and reading his words you would never guess his age. He could remember PT 109’s green because his boat was painted the same green at the same time.

I was able to verify his recollection by cross referencing his memories with PT 109‘s and his boat’s deck logs. The dates match. I sent him a panel of 35 color swatches ranging from yellow-green to blue-green and tertiary olives so he could choose which one was the closest. I was going to post an image of the color panel but decided it is pointless to expect the color to match on everyone’s monitors. I think I’d just cause more problems by putting it up.

To describe the color it is about half way between 5-OG Ocean Green and 5-NG Navy Green when comparing it to the Snyder & Short Enterprises 1943 Early Greens paint chips. It is slightly more olive but it has a distinct green cast, not olive. Since I am self-publishing my book I will include color swatches so a printed reference will be available.

As an aside, I also sent patches to determine the greens of early Solomon campaign boats to several other PT boat veterans as part of my research into other boats. The early greens were distinctly more bright green compared to those applied to the 109.

Matt

Posted By: Matthew Waki | Posted on: Dec 2, 2012 - 11:24pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Hi Matt,
Thanks for sharing your research and posting. Ted Walther shared some color photos of PT-61 which was tied up alongside PT-109 and other boats which were painted the same color you described. I pulled out my Snyder & Short reference paint chips and looked at the two colors you suggested. Here's a reference photo that I believe backs up what you're saying and the experience of Ted Walther's friend, Mr. Prescott.

If you search "PT-61" on this site you'll find more photos but this one I organized speaks directly to paint.

Dave
[IMAGE]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/David_Waples/PT%20BOATS/PT-109colorreference.jpg[/IMAGE]

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 4:43am
Total Posts: 1680 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Peter, from what I've read good model paints are made with finer ground pigments than all purpose type paints so that they can cover with a thinner coat and not obscure small details. Like covering a floor with a layer of sand vs a layer of pebbles, to completely hide the floor only a thin layer of sand is needed. That being said, the Krylon is a much better deal and is my favorite brand of spray can paint. My car's grills are Krylon satin black and the engine chevy orange. Both are still in great shape after a number of years.

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 4:45am
Total Posts: 2203 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

Krylon and Automotive spray paints are Lacquers. They cover well with think coats and dry quickly. One thing to watch out for with these lacquers is that they are "hot" and can damage plastic. Consider putting down a good primer barrier before spraying a lacquer on a plastic kit or at least try it first.

If you prefer an airbrush to a retail rattle can you can always decant the paint into a jar and then run it through your airbrush for better control. All you need is one of those large straws (Arbys and McDonalds style) and a good small glass bottle to spray it into.

Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 6:04am
Total Posts: 1680 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Hey there Jeff.

I don't notice any difference between the Krylon paints I've used and the Testo's paints I've used except the Krylon paints are a lot less expensiveand don't stink nearly as bad nor for as long as the Testor's paints do after they're applied.

Cheers

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 8:38am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Krylon and Automotive spray paints are Lacquers. They cover well with think coats and dry quickly. One thing to watch out for with these lacquers is that they are "hot" and can damage plastic. Consider putting down a good primer barrier before spraying a lacquer on a plastic kit or at least try it first.

If you prefer an airbrush to a retail rattle can you can always decant the paint into a jar and then run it through your airbrush for better control. All you need is one of those large straws (Arbys and McDonalds style) and a good small glass bottle to spray it into.

Dave

David Waples

NO! The Krylon paints I have used are NOT lacquer and I have never had any trouble with any of them melting or even crazing styrene plastic.

Cheers

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 8:41am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Matt,

I started my descent into camouflage madness with the Battleship Arizona and her as sunk camouflage controversy. One thing that working on that problem has taught me is that there are very few personal accounts that can be trusted. I'm not even talking about how sharp their mental facilities are - I've known some sharp but wrong people in my life.

Until you publish and we know the details of who he was and why his color fidelity can or should be trusted (was he a trained artist, for example), you'll forgive me if I dismiss any credence out of hand. This is not meant as an insult, just a notice that I can't trust that until I know more at the very least.

David - run across you here and there but I don't know your background or the background of those photos. I know better than to trust what I see on my monitor, of course, but do you know if the photos you posted have been professionally color corrected and adjusted?

Tracy White
Researcher@Large

Posted By: Tracy White | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 9:14am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Well said Will, this is another discussion that although interesting is one of those areas that continues to go on and on with no end in sight. No two boats were alike out there guys, and who in God's name is going to say your shade of green is wrong. If it's close just go with it..........

Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 11:32am
Total Posts: 3547 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am

Heck, I don't think that a single boat painted with the same paint will look uniform the day it was painted, let alone two after a couple of months. I think it's great to know (if possible) the proper shade to START with, but recognize that paint has variances based on bucket and application.

Tracy White
Researcher@Large

Posted By: Tracy White | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 11:34am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

WIll, you are right on, unless the skippers picked up their boats at the local factory show room, white walls and three coats of clear coat.

There are all kinds of conditions effecting paint application, I was once a car painter, and the atmospheric conditions alone can play heck with paint. Temperature, humidity, overcasts on an on. Brush, mops, brooms, sprayer, thickness of layers, primers, surface preparations, again on and on. Unless you are in a temperature controlled closed spray booth with airflow control and drying system.
SH

Posted By: Hadly | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 11:41am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Hello again guys- Everyone should determine if he/she wants to trust anyone’s research based on his/her own criteria. I am a full-time professional artist and model builder and have been since 1985. Even with my experience if someone told me to go on memory alone to match a color I’d seen to a color chart I’d probably be off. I think modelers using correct thinking know that direct color matching to standard chips is folly. However, colors with specific specs provide a starting point for variations of how the paint actually appears on the subject. To me that is why Snyder & Short’s and FS Standard colors are still invaluable.

I approached believing a first hand memory of a crew member who spent significant time on his boat also as an invaluable starting point. However, I certainly wouldn’t try to put it under a spectrometer or anything. Still miles better IMO than making something up based solely on black and white photographs. Although both boats were painted at the same time and were at the same base there are significant unknown variations. I’ve been interviewing veterans for combat paintings since 1980 and have had some success in model contests in addition to professional building, so I am not without experience in this field. Judging from those who post on this forum I’m sure this subject and dozens of variation have been beaten to death here. Your choice on what you want to do with my research. Not something anybody should get bent over.

Hello as well Dave - Thanks for the heads up on PT 61. Any color photos from WWII are great to look at, regardless of color correction. I am very interested in using any photos of the 61 as they relate to the 109 in my book. I’d appreciate it if anyone who has good copies of them to contact me, or if you could point me in the right direction to contact them it would be great. A search yields a ton of posts. Also, not having the Italeri kit yet (should be here later this week) I’d like to contact those here who contributed photos to the documentation of the kit. I’m sure the photos have been seen many times before and I probably have most of them, but a complete set of all existing ones would be good to complete the documentation.

Matt

Posted By: Matthew Waki | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 12:24pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Krylon manufactures both lacquer and enamel paints so you need to look at which particular paint and primer combinations you are using. In doing some research some report no problems but other modelers have reported disastrous results with some formulations of Krylon - it's a great product but you have to be sure what you are using.
Jerry

Jerry Beasley

Which is why I read the labels before I buy any spray paint. A lot of times the only giveaway that the paint is a laquer based one is in the instructions for cleanup when it says Cleanup with laquer thinners.

I have used many cans of Krylon paint and have never mistakenly ought a laquer based one.

Cheers

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 12:55pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Does anyone really think that two boats painted with identical paint at the same time are still going to be absolutely matched after one or two months of exposure to sun and salt air? All I am saying is (as others have stated) that there are probably no "perfect shades" for dioramas of working boats.

Will

No. I mentioned the Krylon Green because I think it is a good starting colour for anyone who is looking for a good approximation. I'm no colour expert but that paint is good enough for me as a base coat prior to weathering etceters.

Cheers

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

Posted By: PeterTareBuilder | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 1:00pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

This thread sure got busy! Looks like I have a couple of questions to address.

Tracy, scale modeling is a hobby I enjoy and I am not an expert in photography and I have not had time to pour through documents in search of the holy grail. I think doing that is a hobby in itself and I commend you for all the research you've done and share with the modeling community. It's incredibly helpful to people like me. Like you though I look for documented evidence supplied by people like yourself. I like photographic evidence as it captures a moment in time and that's what I like to build from. I completely understand what you're saying about veteran's memories as I went through that in my recent PT-505 diorama build and the recollections of Mr. Frank. But veterans recollections are better than no evidence at all and are often very helpful as was the case with Mr. Frank. Evidence for me is information from a variety of sources to use in my interpretation of a model. I know my build isn't going to be 100% perfect but I want to get as close to that as I can at a given moment in time. There is no way I would expect to perfectly match a boat's color, nor do I want to. When I model I take the base color or as close to it as I can from the evidence available and then modify it for scale effect, so at the end of the day it's not going to match a paint chip. But I do want it based off of that color chip or photo. I like White Ensign Model color coats because their paint is well documented. You just have to be careful about some colors like "Tropical Green" which bares no resemblance to the green we're discussing, even though that's what it's supposed to represent. We could go on about this all night and I'm off to a good start.

Hi Matt, you're welcome. That photo is the best evidence we have to the color of PT-109 as well as the other boats in her squadron who were painted green at that particular point in time. The photo I believe belongs to Ted Walther and you can find his postings all over this forum. Ted shared these with me and I'm confident it's very close to what you're looking for. Ted is more familiar than me with this information so I'll let him address it.

Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 7:09pm
Total Posts: 1680 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

One thing is for certain. For a short time at least, the boat was exactly the shade they painted it. As such, if accuracy is the goal then the closer you can get to the actual color the better. Before you consider any weathering because sheltered spots like under torpedo tubes would not weather as badly as roofs. Not to mention most modelers don't attempt the fine art of weathering so they should probably avoid painting a lighter "weathered" shade over the whole boat. It wouldn't look right. Also, for most modelers, a color "close" like Peter's Krylon is just fine. Otherwise, like David said, White Ensign has probably the closest matches.

I think the paint they used would most of the time be mixed from prescribed Navy stock, not from colors scrounged from non-existant jungle hardware stores, and that the shades would be very close to recommendations.

Just thought I'd throw my 1 cent in...

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 4, 2012 - 3:47am
Total Posts: 2203 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

I think the paint they used would most of the time be mixed from prescribed Navy stock, not from colors scrounged from non-existant jungle hardware stores, and that the shades would be very close to recommendations.

The question is what stock. The Navy didn't really have a ship-based green color until January of 1943, earliest order I have for it to be used (not on PTs though) is April.

There may be another source of green paint though, not necessarily for PT-109 (has it been mentioned when she was repainted? I know some hints have been dropped, but not sure if the general date has been shared).

In 1941 the US Navy released the Passive Defense Handbook, which defined camouflage for shore-based facilities. If you scroll to the bottom of the First Edition, there were color chips released with the booklet and the first one has for greens.

I have zero information about the distribution of paints of any types in the Pacific theaters... it's something I've been keeping my eyes out for. However, it's possible that this could have been a source of color used on earlier boats than 109, if some of the other early boats were painted in anything other than the 5-D/5-O/5-N combos we know about.

Tracy White
Researcher@Large

Posted By: Tracy White | Posted on: Dec 4, 2012 - 8:39pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

I'm just going to offer my 2 cents; you can accept it, or, as you normally do here, totally dismiss it:

The 109 could have been painted in either overall Navy Green or overall Tropical Green, ...

Posted By: TGConnelly | Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 6:22am
Total Posts: 287 | Joined: Dec 19, 2010 - 11:45pm

Guys,

For a great piece of color film footage of a green 80' Elco PT underway, go to YouTube and look up "PT Boats in the Pacific."

It's at about the 33.54 minute mark of the documentary, and goes to about the 34.02 minute mark -- about 8 or 9 seconds worth. You can, of course, advance the clip to that 33.54 minute point, without having to watch the whole thing.

Its probably the best example (of one of the shades) of the green PT color we've all been talking about for years. The boat is fitted with a SCR-517A "beehive" radar. I think it has been previously speculated the boat may be the 149.

I've tried to post a link to the doc, but it won't take for some reason.

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 12:25pm
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Nice Drew, I don't remember seeing the video before... let me try the url: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcfF2OYR5vQ[/url]

I took a few screenshots:

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/ptpics/ptBoatsInThePacific01.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.pt103.com/images/ptpics/ptBoatsInThePacific02.jpg[/image]

Going to go back and watch the whole clip now.

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 1:03pm
Total Posts: 2203 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

I've gotten way behind with work but happened to be running Photoshop so did a quick color correct on the images. Besides the obvious sky becoming bluer and island becoming green the boat colors are interesting. 80' Elco mottling is more pronounced with it being more green as you'd expect. The 77' Elco is really interesting. The gray becomes pretty clearly one of the two early light grays and the green is well, greener. Considering what we've heard about how greens were applied very early in the war it's cool to see.

Posted By: Matthew Waki | Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 1:28pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

That looks like PT 66! If it is, this and the Elco with the SCR-517 radar is RON 8 In New Guinea 1943. I wish we could clear it up. Wow!!! I never paid attention to these two clips before, and I have watched this show before. I wonder how long the film is that this was cut from.
Take care,
TED

Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 7:06pm
Total Posts: 3091 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am

Did you all notice the position of the depth charge racks on the Elco at the very end with the bee hive? Same as the 109 boat.

Back to color, I'm not sure how you can make out anything looking at that color movie film. The film looks very washed out to me. Hard to say what we're looking at.

Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 8:42pm
Total Posts: 1680 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Here's some info about the video, but I couldn't find it for sale anywhere:

History Channel, History's Raiders part 5 of 26, PT Boats in the Pacific
War Documentary published by History Channel in 2001

Google showed mostly warez downloads but you can save it from Youtube in Firefox with the Ant plugin.

Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Dec 6, 2012 - 4:43am
Total Posts: 2203 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am

"Back to color, I'm not sure how you can make out anything looking at that color movie film. The film looks very washed out to me. Hard to say what we're looking at."

You're right, Dave, it is fuzzy, but -- she's an 80' Elco, and she's green [:-veryhappy-:]!

Posted By: Drew Cook | Posted on: Dec 6, 2012 - 6:21am
Total Posts: 1306 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am

Yup, the quality is not good. However, color correction tells us that the greens in the clips are in reality more “green”. Considering how washed out the color in the images are, likely noticeably more green. Nothing I’d trust to know what hue of green though. Just not as grayed out as they show.

Still, another good puzzle piece IMO.

Matt

Posted By: Matthew Waki | Posted on: Dec 6, 2012 - 12:35pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered

Dave, Your 109 resting on that cradle is simply outstanding! I’m struggling with a base for the 623 in it’s new case and man that carved wood base you have is awesome. Did you do it of did you have it made?

Posted By: Roy Forbes | Posted on: Dec 19, 2012 - 3:04pm
Total Posts: 371 | Joined: Sep 5, 2012 - 4:57pm

Thanks Roy. I'm glad you like it.

What I did was create the concept in Microsoft Word. I found a local guy that does laser engraving and sent him the file and the base. Check with the engraver to find out if it should be finished or unfinished. I'm thinking it was finished when I sent it to him but I don't remember.

Shop around because some people are more reasonable than others. There is a company I ran into in Florida during the IPMS show that does nice work and was reasonably priced

http://www.royalamericanengravers.com

PT Boats Inc has drawings of the Elco cradle. They're a little rough but you get enough info to be able to scratch one together.

Dave

David Waples

Posted By: David Waples | Posted on: Dec 20, 2012 - 5:45am
Total Posts: 1680 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm

Thanks for the info David. That just looks so cool. You need to get that baby in the water for some photos.

Posted By: Roy Forbes | Posted on: Dec 28, 2012 - 5:39pm
Total Posts: 371 | Joined: Sep 5, 2012 - 4:57pm