The PT Boat Forum
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi
» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?cid=101&fct=showf
» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboard.cgi?fct=gotoforum&cid=101&fid=102
» Topic:
Chris' Restaurant Flying Saucer
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=1769
Please let me know if this topic has been discussed here before, and if so I'll look for the previous thread.
The annual family vacation during the 50's and 60's was in Ocean City, NJ and a regular fixture was the converted PT boat that made daily joyrides along the shoreline. I even got to ride on it at least once.
I recently did an internet search and found a fair number of pictures and a lot of bad information about Chris' Seafood Restaurant Flying Saucer. On different sites it's described as a converted Elco, Higgins, or Huckins. I'm visiting the folks right now and showed my Dad the pictures; He feels it's an Elco based on the shape of the bow and chine. I also noticed that it does not have exhausts on the sides of the hull. Does anybody know what type of boat it was?
It's also variously stated that Chris Montague bought either three or four PT boats. One was converted to a speedboat (the Flying Saucer) and two were converted to fishing boats or 'fast head boats' (the Flying Cloud and Wild Goose). The fourth boat, if it existed, was used for spares. These boats are also described as various mixtures of Elco, Higgins and Huckins. The Flying Cloud is in one of the attached pictures. Does anyone know anything about the fishing boats? It seems like a lot of power for a fishing boat, although what I can gather from another web search is that a head boat is used for open water fishing and a fast head boat gets you to the open water rather quickly.
I have a few more questions and some fond remembrances of the joyriding PT, but I'll wait and see if this is an old topic. This was the first and probably only PT boat discussion that my Dad, Mom, sister and I could all get in on ' we all went on the Flying Saucer!
[image]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/prjm3/ChrisFlyingSaucer1-1.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/prjm3/ChrisFlyingSaucer5-1.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/prjm3/ChrisFlyingSaucer9.jpg[/image]
Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III)
Posted By: PRJM3 | Posted on: Apr 22, 2010 - 8:27pm
Total Posts: 96 | Joined: May 25, 2009 - 2:47pm
Chris;
If I remember correctly, The Flying Saucer was a surplus Vosper. A man named Tom Laskey, purchased or was the principle player in buying a large number of the boats sold surplus in 1946-47 from RON 22, RON 30, and RON 4. boats that went this way, that I know of, were PT 40, 48(became Flamingo II and Flamingo I, respectively, Miami, Fla. 48 is currently in Kingston N.Y), 139(became Question Mark, Ocean City Md), 140(went to Fla), 302(Became Blue Dolphin, last seen in New Orleans), 305(became oyster boat, Chrisfield Md, now in New Orleans WWll museum for restoration), 308(stayed La Dee Da, burned Timmons Boat Yard 2004?), 309(Became Brand X, Bay Shore, L.I N.Y.) , 314( ended up with Roger Radbill), 459(currently in Kingston N.Y), 486(became Shumann's Big Blue, now Sightseer, currently being restored, to PT 109 config), 559(became PT Joe, locals told me it had a few names, out of Lewes, Del. sunk in storm off Hen and Chicken Shoals, Cape Henlopen Del 1979). other boats were sold directly to private owners at the surplus auction, such as PT 59(which was later tied up in a ownership litigation in NYC probate court, she fell in disrepair and sunk at her mooring , which was ajacent to 217th RR bridge in Harlem, NY, around 1977), PT 99(which became Porkers Stern, washed up in hurricane in the 1980's) I also know of aother Elco that was in NC, and on Higgins in NC and One in Seaford, Va, but don't know their real identities. some boats were sold later such as 615(now currently in Kingston N.Y) ,617(at PT Museum), then others stayed in Navy employment for quite a while such as 658(restored Portland , Or),659(broken up, remains shipped to New Orleans WWll museum for parts for 305 restoration), and 796
Chip Marshall has way more info on most of the boats that were sold surplus than I have. I have also seen an aerial photo of what I believe was most of RON 22 being "stored" at a boat yard in the vicinity of the current Coast Guard Station, in Ocean City, N.J. around 1946-47.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Apr 23, 2010 - 4:48am
Total Posts: 3091 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
OOPS!!!
SORRY FOR CALLING YOU CHRIS, RANDY
TAKE CARE
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Apr 23, 2010 - 5:12am
Total Posts: 3091 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Randy,
You can tell a ELCO boat because the exhausts are out the stern of the boat.
Bill Manley
Bill Manley
Posted By: Bill Manley | Posted on: Apr 23, 2010 - 6:28am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Here is a picture I found among my father-in-laws slides. It is from Ocean city, maybe 1960s or possibly late 1950s time frame. Kind of looks like an Elco to me.
[Image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/CharlieJones/ptboatmaybe.jpg[/IMage]
Charlie
Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Apr 23, 2010 - 1:13pm
Total Posts: 611 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm
Charlie;
That looks like the Question Mark to me in full head boat configuration. They had a great photo for her over the front desk at The Duck Inn, which was were she was moored. The photo is probably still there, if I get down there this year, I will let you know.
Take care,
TED
take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Apr 23, 2010 - 5:42pm
Total Posts: 3091 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Charlie;
now that I looked at the photo again....notice the Question Mark? on the flying bridge. This is a really sweet photo, and the best I have ever seen of her....ex-PT 139.
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Apr 23, 2010 - 5:47pm
Total Posts: 3091 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted,
Thanks for the information, I didn't realize there were so many boats that made it into private hands. I'll have to look into the different boat numbers you provided when I'm back home and have access to my books. I'll particularly need to look at the Vosper boats a little closer.
Charlie,
That's a great picture of Question Mark. The Flying Saucer was in Ocean City, New Jersey while the Question Mark was in Ocean City, Maryland. We did vacation in OC, Maryland at least once but I wasn't aware of the Question Mark. It looks like exhaust stains on the side of the Question Mark, so it was apparently not an Elco.
Will have to do web searches on all of the "named" boats!
Thanks again,
Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III)
Posted By: PRJM3 | Posted on: Apr 27, 2010 - 12:19pm
Total Posts: 96 | Joined: May 25, 2009 - 2:47pm
Randy;
In a news article about the auction in 1946 a number of boats were sold. I am at home now, and it is a PDF file. I no longer have adobe because I am not using MSN. I will send it tomorrow.
Take care
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Apr 27, 2010 - 2:24pm
Total Posts: 3091 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
This is an interresting thread to follow, the info you have Ted would answer a lot of questions about the life of the Boats that were sold off after the War.
For that matter anyone with such info may like to add to this thread.
The photo of the Question Mark does follow the hull lines of a 80' Elco, just as the topsides have been changed so to can the exhaust be moved, so using the exhaust placement to ID a Boat 15 or so years after the War does not take into account what a new owner may do to it.
With a little luck a thread like this could lead to more Boats being discoved ,lets see where it goes.
D.buck
Posted By: David Buck | Posted on: Apr 28, 2010 - 7:58pm
Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am
Those funnels by the life rafts sure look familiar.
Posted By: Jeff D | Posted on: Apr 29, 2010 - 6:00am
Total Posts: 2203 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am
Since my boat picture was identified as the Question Mark, I noticed that I had scanned the slide from the wrong side as the question mark is backwards.
Oops.
Charlie
Posted By: 29navy | Posted on: Apr 29, 2010 - 12:56pm
Total Posts: 611 | Joined: Dec 28, 2006 - 3:02pm
Found on the web http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g46696-c97889/Ocean-City:New-Jersey:Ocean.City.Then.And.Now.html:
There were four surplus WWII PT boats. There were three fishing boats; the Wild Goose, the Flying Cloud, and the Gone with the Wind.
The Wild Goose was a party fishing boat and the Flying Cloud was for private charters. The Flying Cloud often ran excursions in the evening. The Gone with the Wind was anchored in the bay for a number of years before it was brought into service. Chris only ran it for one year before it was sold. It had a heated cabin and was intended for year round use. Only one can surmise why that was discontinued.
The fourth of course, was the Flying Saucer. She retained the original PT boat shape. Chris claimed ninety miles-an-hour and many people would agree. The first season was 1953 and it ran for seventeen years until the Coast Guard retired the wooden boat after a massive explosion that injured 28 sightseers. The explosion occurred August 25th, 1970 at 7:03 PM about 100 feet off the dock of the Ocean City Yacht Club in 30 feet of water. After the blast, the skipper Chris Montagna (then 70 years old), ordered everyone overboard as flames from the engine compartment sprang up nearly 2 stories. Three passengers refused to go overboard, and were taken off by a Coast Guard boat. There was much panic and confusion as some were hit with wooden debris, and the passengers at the rear of the boat were climbing forward over and on top of people to get away from the flames. The life jackets were stored under the bench seats, however, with all of the people rushing forward, it was impossible for some to get to the life jackets. Some people were actually trampled during all the panic. The incident made the headlines in the Philadelphia Inquirer, Wednesday morning August 26th, 1970.
Posted By: ReedBo | Posted on: Jun 6, 2014 - 2:39pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
I was looking for info on Chris's Saucer. What a thrill, I rode it many times as a kid. I even got on board and had a tour below deck by the engineer who maintained the engines during the ride. If I recall properly and I think it's correct - 4 beautiful Packard V-12 engines. What power and sound from those exhaust. Chris ran them at full throttle. I always sat on a side close to the back.
Then one day I was in the inlet with my 12 ft. step home built hydro (pointed nose) and Chris came by at full throttle. The nose went down in the wake and I thought I was going to sink as the nose went under, Couldn't see anything except water, so I gunned the Merk outboard up the other side and flew up and over to the next wave. I hit so hard the outboard flew off the transom, flipped and the prop started chewing the deck next to my foot.
Anyway I was towed back and can now tell the story. Man, I loved that PT boat. I also went fishing off the Flying Cloud. It was a fast trip out and back.
Tom Welsh Summered in OC in the 50's and still going down the shore.[:-cheers-:]
Posted By: Tom Welsh | Posted on: Jul 6, 2016 - 7:36pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
I just did a little more research and found that there were only 3 V-12 engines. But it doesn't curb my enthusiasm for that special Speedboat.
Posted By: Tom Welsh | Posted on: Jul 6, 2016 - 7:57pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Tom,
Nice to see that you found these older posts on the Flying Saucer. My father's family vacationed in Ocean City when he was a boy, and then our family did the same in the 60's and early 70's. We usually stayed at or near the Sindia apartments and part of the wreck was still visible in the surf at that time. The Flying Saucer did it's twice daily runs along the shore line and we always at the ready for the bigger waves its wake would cause. We only went for a ride on it once, but it was certainly memorable. I particularly remember as we were coming back into the harbor and my father warned me that something was about to happen. Chris ran the boat at a high speed right up to the harbor entrance, I guess where the 'no wake' restriction was in effect. At that point he shut the throttles abruptly and everyone got soaked with a giant bow wave. Great fun! Dad said he did something similar when MacArthur was on his boat, the 361, and he got away with it. That story is for another time.
As time went on Dad felt that the Flying Saucer was only being run on one or two engines, a fact of the cost of gas and limited engine life. One year the Flying Saucer wasn't doing it's runs and Dad found out it had hit some debris and damaged the hull. He took me for a ride in our '56 Ford, I have no idea where, and we eventually found the Saucer out of the water on a cradle being repaired. The boat looked huge to me, especially compared to all the other boats around it. Then Dad commented that one of the engines was out of the boat sitting next to it. I kept asking him where it was, I couldn't see it. He finally said, "Under the tarp next to that green car." Then I noticed the object covered by a green tarpaulin that was almost as big as the car. I never expected an engine to be that big!
For whatever reason my parents started vacationing in Stone Harbor rather than Ocean City, and my wife, daughter and I have done the trip there from Colorado several times. Unfortunately Dad is no longer around to go with us, and there are no converted PT boats running along the shoreline.
Randy McC
Posted By: Randy McConnell | Posted on: Jul 10, 2016 - 8:04pm
Total Posts: 12 | Joined: Mar 16, 2013 - 7:42pm
I, too, remember the boat - especially the noise - when I was a lad. I used to go to camp in Pleasantville, NJ, and we would be taken daily to the beach at Ocean City. From childhood memory I recall the boat cruising south parallel to the shore, perhaps an eighth of a mile offshore, but the sound of the engines was attention-getting. Mufflers - if any - were wide open.
Cheers!
--Bob
Posted By: Bob Steinbrunn | Posted on: Jul 11, 2016 - 12:09pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
New to this forum, after watching PT 109 the other night, it tripped a memory of "PT" boats when i was a kid in OCNJ. My parents met at Bayshores and vacationed in OCNJ every summer. I can remember my Dad telling me the big noisy boat that was flying by was a PT boat. I didn't understand until i saw the movie. (I was 11 when Kennedy was assassinated) The memories i have of the boats was that there were usually two, at least for many years and one was brightly painted and may have had a big name or advertisment on the sides. They seemed to be mainly taking people for rides as opposed to fishing. But unlike the Flying Saucer below they still had a pretty large superstructure, maybe canopies like the ones used for fishing parties. Anyway it was great to find the sight and see some pictures of the old girls. If anybody can point me to the Boats I'm remembering it would be much appreciated.
Posted By: Dirk | Posted on: Nov 3, 2016 - 12:11pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered