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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
What is this ?
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?cid=101&fid=102&tid=1698
Does anyone know what would be written under the hatch cover ? It's so out of focus, even under magnification it's not readable. Maybe a duty roster ?
In the background is a British 'Dog' boat, MGB 663. The photo was taken in Bastia, Corsica.
Pretty decent view of her aft '6 Pounder'.
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Steve%20Nugent/Scan27.jpg[/image]
Steve Nugent
Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Mar 6, 2010 - 7:52am
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am
Steve;
That looks like a version of a QM tracking board.
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 6, 2010 - 8:32am
Total Posts: 3080 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Ted,
I'm not familiar with a QM tracking board. What is its function?
Al Ross
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Mar 6, 2010 - 9:59am
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm
Al;
LOL! True heading, Course, speed, distance to next way point, time to next way point, etc. I always had mine written up for quick reference, I never had anything like this. Of course I had the stuff already plotted on Furuno , and in my last boat Transis.
It was just a guess; it might even be a quick reference board for call signs and if they used them like we did, the all call signs would change at 0000.
Do you have a guess?
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 6, 2010 - 4:35pm
Total Posts: 3080 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
By the way, what type of boat is this Hatch Cover attached to.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Mar 6, 2010 - 5:35pm
Total Posts: 3544 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
It took me a couple minutes of looking at the picture to understand what I was looking at. Based on the shapes, I think it's the bridge of a Higgins. The torpedo sight is fitted in the V of the windshield and the hatch is the hinged hatch over the companion. Seems like a logical place to put what you describe, as the helmsman (QM) stood just to the left of the hatch.
Would they have used a similar device for tracking a torpedo target? Maybe if there's a TM on the board, he could respond.
Al
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Mar 6, 2010 - 5:37pm
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Ted%20Walther/statusboard-1.jpg[/image]
I hope this comes out, it has been awhile since I posted images!
This is a image of a status board.
This is just an example I found in my Chapman's Piloting: Seamanship and Small Boat Handling.
Looking at the spaces that are on that board on the inside of the hatch cover, I am sure they probably had extra info as I mentioned in my previous post such as time to next way point, next course, time to next way point, etc. Even though I was Det Lead Navigator of my last MK V SOC Det., my job was alot easier than it was back in 1943-1944 while in RON 15. Where is QM? Maybe he used something like this in RON 12.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 6, 2010 - 6:03pm
Total Posts: 3080 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Frank . . .
The boat is a Higgins, I've labeled some items in the photo reproduced below.
According to "At Close Quarters" section 5, number 12, page 305, "Fun with Rockets". RON 15 and some of it's Higgins 200 series boats experiment with rockets as a desperate measure to find a weapon that would be effective against F-Lighters. These launchers were described in Polmar & Morison's book as "Mouse Trap ASW Projectile Launchers". RON 15 only used them twice. Their accuracy was less then desired, and they took off with such a blaze of flames that the position of the PT's were revealed. In the first action PT'-202, 204 and 211 were involved but no actual details were given of the use of the rockets. The number of boats outfitted and their PT designation is not detailed. However photos published in Victor's and Frank Johnson's books clearly shows PT-211 as outfitted in a single photo. Also PT-202 is seen along with a second unidentified boat along side, each equipped with these launcher (maybe the 204?). Just maybe the boat in the photo is 202, 204 or 211.
Dick . . .
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Webmaster/Scan27-01.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Mar 6, 2010 - 11:58pm
Total Posts: 1487 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
There is a Ron 15 Action Report from 29/30 December 1943 ( A R no. 23 ) that has some
interesting items on the 4.5 inch rockets. That AR involves the 214 & the 218 boats, and the
214 fired 15 of its 16 rockets at a target.
The AR also says that " all boats have for some time been equipped with racks to carry 12-16 4.5 inch rockets. This type of weapon is considered a valuable preliminary to a gunnery engagement but its destructive value has yet to be established ". I can't seem to find when
the installations first started.
Also it says the flight time at 950 yards is 18 seconds ( 48 degree elevation at idling speed ) and that the weapon can only be used on a slow target.
I think only Ron 15 was outfitted with these type rockets. Somewhere I read that the boat crews were terrified of firing those things !
( I'm looking for more rocket photos 0.
Steve Nugent
Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 - 8:21am
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am
Here's one for you. I don't know which Ron 15 boat this is though. I was just thinking that I've never seen one of the rockets itself ! More searching........
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Steve%20Nugent/ROCKETS.jpg[/image]
Steve Nugent
Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 - 8:34am
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am
Steve,
Great detail shot of the launcher! What other gems do you have tucked away??
Al Ross
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 - 9:09am
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm
An overall view of a Higgins boat's bridge area. Shown, Higgins PT-295 - A typical Bridge arrangement for the Higgins 265 series boats.
Frank
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/FrankAndruss/PT-295-001.jpg[/image]
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 - 9:14am
Total Posts: 3544 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Steve
There is mention of Ron 15 and the rockets here. Scoll down to Feb. 1944. Your were right about them being nervous about using them.
[url]http://www.petertare.org/ron15/ron15-9.htm[/url]
Gary
Posted By: Gary Paulsen | Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 - 9:32am
Total Posts: 250 | Joined: Feb 14, 2009 - 6:31am
In Steve's second photo you can see where they tried to diminish deck damage by attaching a sheet metal plate directly behind the launcher and attached flat to the deck. Evidently to deflect the blast and flames directly from the wooden deck. Great detail.
The other two rocket style launchers, more commonly seen on ELCO's had either a vertical back plate or wrap-around flash shield. This excludes the late war Mk 50 launchers which were rotated off deck when fired.
All of these launcher look a little scary, particularly when mounted on wooden boats. Must have been an experience on board.
Posted By: Dick | Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 - 9:32am
Total Posts: 1487 | Joined: Aug 27, 2006 - 6:36pm
Frank;
What a great shot of the cockpit area of 295! This will be a great help in my 308 build.
Questions:
Was there any difference between this cockpit layout and a 302-313 series 78' Higgins?
Why is that box type cover built over the throttle quadrant?
Does any one know what that box looking item is on the bulkhead behind the STBD .50 cal turret? Was it a sound powered phone connection box?
Thanks.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 - 4:35pm
Total Posts: 3080 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Not sure how much this helps, but here are two cockpit wiring diagrams for the Higgins boats - they are different.
The top one is identified on the drawing as for PT265-301, while the bottom one is identified as for PT 286, 302-313, 450-477
[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/wiring_0001.jpg[/IMaGe]
[IMaGe]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/wiring_0002.jpg[/IMaGe]
Al Ross
Posted By: alross2 | Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 - 5:26pm
Total Posts: 994 | Joined: Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm
Ted, we did not have anything like the item in the picture. All of our navigation notes were on the chart on the chart table. Upon return to base everything entered on the chart was erased and the chart was stored until our next outing.
On the starboard side of the cockpit we had a small blackboard on which recognition signals, flashing light and signal pistol, with the time period for each set of signals was written. The blackboard was covered by waterproof canvas.
Posted By: QM | Posted on: Mar 7, 2010 - 6:12pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Hi Guys,
Do you suppose the rockets were loaded in the racks prior to a mission, and then armed when ready to use ? I can't imagine where else they could be stored on board.
Steve Nugent
Posted By: Nuge210 | Posted on: Mar 8, 2010 - 5:43am
Total Posts: 323 | Joined: Jun 4, 2008 - 7:50am
QM;
I thought so. That board on the inside of the hatch, looks like an individual/crew preference item, they used because they liked to and thought it was easier. I know I have never seen one on a PT before, but it is also something you normally would not see, the only reason why we are seeing it is because the hatch was open that day when somebody took the photo, 10 minutes later, this hatch might have been in the down position. I just had a general idea because, I used one like this at times on different types of boats, at other times, I did it the way you described. For me it depended on the amount of room I had to deal with, we always had the tracks charted prior to briefing. But on the boats, sometimes a board was more practicle.
Take care,
TED
Posted By: TED WALTHER | Posted on: Mar 8, 2010 - 8:17am
Total Posts: 3080 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am
Hi Guys-
I found this photo of a RON 16 boat. The board appears to show the call signs. The top line reads "TIME," "CHAL" (I assume means "challenge",) and "REPLY."
[image]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Alex%20Johnson/RON_16_cockpit.jpg[/image]
Hope this helps.
ALEX
Posted By: Alex Johnson | Posted on: Mar 8, 2010 - 6:22pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
The picture definitely looks like the recognition signals. This is a different location than we had on the Elco. The three color signal pistol reply could be hidden on the right side. It appears that the boat is tied up and taking on drinking water. We would have several sets of signals posted when on patrol because the signals changed periodically. I do not remember the time period for each.
Posted By: QM | Posted on: Mar 9, 2010 - 8:05pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered