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» Forum Category: PT Boats of WWII
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» Forum Name: PT Boats - General
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» Topic:
What did PT Crews do when enroute aboard a merchant marine tanker
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I got a general question - when the PT boats were being shipped from NY to the Pacific via merchant-marine ships, where did the PT crews stay? In their quarters on the PTs? What did they do on the ship for 2 months?
I'm thinking of the SS Stanvac Manilla. In '43 she was sailing from NYC w/ six PTs on her back, and a crew of 188, only 50 were merchant-mariners, the rest were listed as "naval personnel and officers". As the story is told in "At Close Quarters" the ship was torpedoed and the PT crews managed to salvage 4 of the 6 boats. The ship was an Exxon oil-tanker carrying 130k tons of oil. So I dont think it had quarters for 188 ppl on board the tanker per-se.
Any thoughts on where the crew stayed? what they might have done to keep from going crazy? etc?
"Self doubt clips the wings of Hope"
http://www.PT171.org
Posted By: Mike Montana | Posted on: Oct 8, 2006 - 8:06pm
Total Posts: 21 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 7:59pm
Mike:
Most crews stayed pretty much to themselfs, keeping busy readying the boats for the War Zone. Crews stayed right on the PT Boats, sleeping below deck or above deck. Although certainly not much to do during the trip, they had access to the Ship. Many wrote letters, listened to music ( if someone had a phonograph ) From talking with several crew members, many actually became seasick because of the slow roll and smell on the ship. They prefered the high speed of their own PT Boats.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:20am
Total Posts: 3547 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
Mike: I know there are at least some instances when PT crews in transit stood deck watches aboard the transporting ships. Also, there were instances of the PT guns being manned during threat of air attack.
Will
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 10, 2006 - 7:50am
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Mike,
I would tend to think the crews stayed in free areas on board the ship that the boats were being transportated on. Remember, when being transported, the boats had their fuel tanks filled with a chemical that coated them and prohibited them from exploding and maybe this chemical was dangerous to humans?
Hey Mike, are you going to post that article?
Garth
You've got a question, I've got an answer.
Posted By: TGarth Connelly | Posted on: Oct 10, 2006 - 3:44pm
Total Posts: 76 | Joined: Oct 10, 2006 - 6:33am
Hi Garth, I just read the account on Mike Montana's PT171 website about how PT171 almost sank upon delivery. In it, it says how the PT boats started their engines in order to get out of danger from the sinking Stanvac Manila. So I imagine at least -some- PT boats did not have their gas tanks filled with that preservative stuff, else they would not have been able to start their engines. By the way what was the preservative? I have never heard of such a thing. Certainly not cosmoline? Let me know if you have the name of the chemical or where they used it. I imagine it would have been pretty smelly. Thanks Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
Posted By: Jerry Gilmartin | Posted on: Oct 11, 2006 - 8:23am
Total Posts: 1498 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 11:16pm
Ya know Jerry -
I thought of that myself last night after I went to bed. And, it struck me as wierd. Wouldn't that be a common practice? I just remember reading something to that effect about the boats that were sitting on the pier next to the RAMPAPO on 7 DEC 41. They had their tanks coated ...
Hey Jerry, anything on the damned 659?
Garth
You've got a question, I've got an answer.
Posted By: TGarth Connelly | Posted on: Oct 11, 2006 - 10:51am
Total Posts: 76 | Joined: Oct 10, 2006 - 6:33am
From what I've read, the fuel-tanks were filled with C02 - makes perfectly good sense: non reactive, prevents rust, moisture buildup, and its gaseous so it can be released simply by opening the valve and 'airing it out'.
Of course the real problem would have been finding a couple gallons of high-octane gasoline on a steam-powered merchant marine ship that was in the throes of sinking.
"Self doubt clips the wings of Hope"
http://www.PT171.org
Posted By: Mike Montana | Posted on: Oct 11, 2006 - 11:36am
Total Posts: 21 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 7:59pm
I don't remember, does it state for a fact anywhere that the boats that were saved during the sinking were underway, or were they just simply floated free?
Will
Will
Posted By: Will Day | Posted on: Oct 11, 2006 - 3:29pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Seems that Carbon Dioide was used as a gaseous fire suppression agent from the 1920's. In the PT Boats, they blanketed the Fuel Tanks with this stuff to reduce the risk of fire and or explosion. What they did not tell people was the effects on the body from exposure to this gas. Even a short term exposure could cause Headaches, Visual and hearing problems and difficulty in breathing. Deaths from Marine use were recorded as early as 1948, so who knows what the stuff did before the records were kept. But, it was the only agent available in those days to do the trick. I understand you could still operate the Engines in an emergency, but it was very risky to do so.
Posted By: Frank J Andruss Sr | Posted on: Oct 11, 2006 - 6:42pm
Total Posts: 3547 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am
hi everyone.welcome back. this just as general info.when i left San Fransisco,on a liberty ship i was,at the time not assigned to pt boats.i was assigned in numea new caledonia after i got there.while aboard the liberty ship i was assigned as one of the loaders on a 4 or 5 inch gun and was also assigned as helper in the galley.i was a ships cook 3rd class.
while aboard we listened to radio-news and music and tokyo rose.we also played poker,gin rummy,cribbage,black jack, and shot craps.we read a lot and had general quarters quite often.otherwise we were plain bored.it was cramped,dirty and smelly.oh well,so much for the good life.welcome back and congratulations on return of the message board.it was sorely missed. earl
earl richmond
Posted By: earl | Posted on: Oct 18, 2006 - 2:41pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Thanks everyone for all the info you posted. Earl, I have some more specific questions about New Caledonia:
I understand from encyclopedias that New Caledonia was a French Territory. But, being so close to Austrailia, was it used by the Aussie's as well as Americans? Was it a proper US Navy base? Or just a civillian harbor used as a staging point for merchant marine to drop anchor? In other words, what happened once the navy material & men arrived? Were they sent out in their squads right from NewCaledonia?
"Self doubt clips the wings of Hope"
http://www.PT171.org
Posted By: Mike Montana | Posted on: Oct 18, 2006 - 9:38pm
Total Posts: 21 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 7:59pm
Thanks everyone for the replies. Very interesting.
Earl: What was New Caledonia like? From the encyclopedia I guess it was a French territory, but, being so close to Austrailia, was it an Austrialian base?
Was the port in New Caledonia a proper US Navy base? Or a civillian harbor that was used for millitary operations? I havnt a clue what it was like, and there's hardly any information on the web.
-Mike
"Self doubt clips the wings of Hope"
http://www.PT171.org
Posted By: Mike Montana | Posted on: Oct 19, 2006 - 6:57am
Total Posts: 21 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 7:59pm
HI MIKE WHEN WE ARRIVED IN NEW CALEDONIA WE WERE UNLOADED AT THE CITY DOCK AREA.WE WERE THEN TRANPORTED TO THE US NAVY STAGING BASE OUTSIDE OF THE CITY.WHILE THERE WE AWAITED ASSIGNMENTS TO VARIOUS DUTIES.WHILE THERE I WAS SENT OUT ON VARIOUS DUITIES.CLEANING VARNALINE OFF TORPEDO'S,WORK PARTIES. UNLOADING AMMO FROM TRUCKS WORKING IN WAREHOUSES, CLEAN UP DUTIES,EYC.. IT WAS HOT AND VERY HUMID.SOMETIMES WE WORKED INSIDE THE CITY AND THAT WAS A REAL TREAT.AS EXTRA DUTY WE WATCHED THE FRENCH GIRLS WALKING BY.HEY, HEY.WE SOMETIMES WORKED NEXT TO THE LEPER COLONY.I WAS CALLED OUT TO THE DAILY ASSIGNMENT AREA ONE MORNING AND WAS TOLD I VOLUNTEERED FOR PT BOAT DUTY AND TO GET MY GEAR READY TO LEAVE THE NEXT MORNING.THEY TOOK US TO THE PT POATS THAT WERE TRANSPORTING US FROM THERE,THRU GUADALCANAL TO TULAGI.THERE WAS ONE PLACE JUST AT THE END OF THE DOCKS WHERE THERE WERE ABOUT TWO LINES OF MEN WAITING TO GET INTO THE BUILDING.GUESS YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHAt that was for..you want any other info you can e mail me.it was also there where i was in hospital for two days with sunstroke.
earl richmond
Posted By: earl | Posted on: Nov 2, 2006 - 12:28pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
PS YES IT WAS USED BY THE AUSSIES AND NEW ZEALANDERS. THERE WAS ALSO A PRISON CAMP THERE TO HOLD THE CAPTURED JAPANESE PRISONERS.
earl richmond
Posted By: earl | Posted on: Nov 2, 2006 - 12:34pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Wow Earl! Thanks for the reply! How can I email you directly? My email is mikeMontana @ hotmail.com
"Self doubt clips the wings of Hope"
http://www.PT171.org
Posted By: Mike Montana | Posted on: Nov 2, 2006 - 8:51pm
Total Posts: 21 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 7:59pm
With Memorial Day approaching I was thinking about my dad and just happened to find this message on the board.My dad didn't say much about the war but one story he told was about the trip overseas on the tanker that brought his Squadron to the South Pacific.
He spoke of the tradition of shaving your head if you're crossing the equator for the first time. He also spoke about the guys throwing ahuge party on board with guys spreading grease on their bodies and one guy dressing up as King Neptune himself.
I hope that some vets have some stories to tell us about their trip over.
[IMaGe]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Gary%20Szot/ComingOver.jpg[/IMaGe]
My dad is on the far right. Please note the uniform of the day.
[IMaGe]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Gary%20Szot/EquatorParty.jpg[/IMaGe]
Party on the deck of a PT
[IMaGe]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/Gary%20Szot/KingNeptune.jpg[/IMaGe]
King Neptune
Posted By: Gary Szot | Posted on: May 25, 2008 - 12:11pm
Total Posts: 193 | Joined: Feb 12, 2007 - 1:00pm
Great pics Gary!
My Pop was sent to the Pacific on the SS Matsonia with a ton of Ron 15 guys in January 1945. I can only imagine the bordem...here's the photos from that trip:
The ship:
[image]http://www.pistolpackinmama.net/pb/wp_13aa7355/images/img31404471728229d538.jpg[/image]
The "shellback" initiation after crossing the equator:
[image]http://www.pistolpackinmama.net/pb/wp_13aa7355/images/img2153547172dc7c359d.jpg[/image]
And the "official" ceremony certificate from his initiation:
[image]http://www.pistolpackinmama.net/pb/wp_13aa7355/images/img1497847173e48c05cd.jpg[/image]
Good topic!
Grandson of James J Stanton
RON 15 PT 209 and RON 23 PT 243
Check out: www.pistolpackinmama.net
Posted By: newsnerd99 | Posted on: May 25, 2008 - 3:36pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Like Earl I was assigned to P.T.'s at Noumea, New Caledonia. The trip from San Francisco to New Caledonia was via and old Dutch freighter with Dutch crew flying a Dutch flag. There were only about 60 U.S. sailors with 2 officers aboard. They put up temporary bunks 4 high in one of the cargo holds for us. We were served two meals a day. Only had fresh water to drink. Showers were salt water. That is where I was introduced to salt water soap. I tried to wash my hair it matted up like grease. Took the whole trip to get it out. The trip took 31 days. We were unescourted all the way and never saw land. One of the officers was hell on P.E. and had us on deck doing calisthenics twice a day. When not doing that we played cards and just shot the bull. We did have clean up detail to keep our area of the ship clean. A very boring trip. We did get our shellback cards - signed by a Dutchman but didn't have any ceremony. None of the U.S. sailors on board had ever crossed the equator before.
C. J. Willis
Posted By: CJ Willis | Posted on: May 25, 2008 - 7:43pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
I can help here. On the early boats- PT's 113, 114 which were transported to New Caledonia by the USS Suamico, a gasoline tanker, and the 119, 120, 121 and 122 boats (you will note that these six boats ended up becoming Division 17, my subject of interest) which were transported upon the Fairisle, a cargo ship but not a Liberty Ship, the guys were generally treated as second class citizens. They did NOT mix or mingle with the crews of the transporting ships- not even the Navy gun crews. They did not even eat the same food or, for that matter, eat in the galley. They ate crap beans and Spam while they stood at counters against the bulkheads. And a serious concern were the rumors that the mercahnt marineners were paid better and received bonuses that the "fighting men" never got. This was never substantiated and, in fact, has been refuted by many over the years. In their "down" time they painted the PT's bottoms and running gear with grease and performed other maintenance upon the PT's. They slept and sometimes ate aboard their own boats upon the decks of the transporting ships- some even strung hammocks under the boats to get air. In the heat, many slept beneath the PT's on the decks and among the rigging. These early boats were rigged for quick break-out from their cribbing through the use of "pelican hooks" and other "trip lines" so that they, indeed, could make a get-away if the ship was torpedoed. These boats apparently were fueled and ready to go. In actuallity, what is the inherent danger of having fuel in the fuel tanks aboard a tanker transporting gasoline? The obvious two sources of ignition would be either an electrical short circuit or smoking materials. Both of these issues were controlled. It is my understanding that these two transports were traveling unescorted, many days apart, from Panama to New Caledonia. They were floating targets. The PT's were desperately needed in the South Pacific. It was a risk, but the goal was to save what they could from any disaster. Hence, the boats were ready to go. It was of great concern to the guys on the 113 and 114 because they were on the foredeck and knew that if all that aviation "blue lighting" gasoline were ignited by a torpedo there would be no time and nowhere to go. This is straight from the guys that were there. Perhaps procedures changed regarding neutralizing the fuel tanks on later boats. I am not aware of a single fire involving a PT under transport. I am assembling much more of this type of imformation and am anxious to get it out there for all to read. But it will take a while. Anyway- I just wanted to get my two cents in.
Allan
Posted By: Allan | Posted on: May 28, 2008 - 7:29pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
THANKS ALLAN FOR THE INFORMATION.IT WAS VERY INTERESTING.I DID NOT HAVE THE "PLEASURE" OF SHIPPING OVERSEAS WITH PT BOATS ABOARD SHIP.I SHIPPED OUT ON A LIBERTY SHIP TO NEW CALEDONIA WHERE I WAS THEN ASSIGNED TO THE BOATS.I GUESS SHIPPING OUT ON VARIOUS SHIPS WAS VARIED AS TO WHAT AND HOW EVERYTHING WAS DONE.I NEVER REALLY KNEW HOW IT WAS ABOARD THE PT BOAT TRANSPORT SHIPS BUT OFTEN WONDERED ABOUT HOW IT WAS. THANKS AGAIN FOR ENLIGHTENING ME.GUESS I WAS ONE OF THE LUCKY ONES TO DRAW A LIBERTY SHIP. EARL
earl richmond
Posted By: EARL RICHMOND | Posted on: May 28, 2008 - 8:29pm
Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered
Wow; This is real interesting. It seems as if my dads' squadron was the exception rather than the rule. Although the trip was long and arduous the crews found a way to let off some steam.
The crews that shipped out earlier did not seem to have the same luxury.
Posted By: Gary Szot | Posted on: May 29, 2008 - 7:58am
Total Posts: 193 | Joined: Feb 12, 2007 - 1:00pm